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INDIAN RAILWAYS TECHNICAL SUPERVISORS ASSOCIATION
Regd. No.1329 at Delhi, under Indian Trade Union Act, 1926 }
CHQ. 32, Phase 6, Mohali, Chandigarh-160 055 (Ph :0172-2228306 , 09316131598) Email gsirtsa@yahoo.com

Ref: IRTSA/ Unity / 09 /1
Dated 23. 03. 2009

Dear Brother Engineers,

Subject: Unity of Engineers on the Railways

Ref: Following remarks of Er Bobin Mohanty, in the Guest Book of irtsa.net

"I came to know that, IRTSA wants to maintain as Association after merger, which is injustice. Because, Federation should not be degraded to Association. If it is so, then it is same as rail engineers are degraded at par with nurses. AIREF is the best ever name representing railway engineers. If both merge, then I hope we will be definitely recognized by Railway similar to CPWD, MES, etc. in near future." - Bobin Mohanty
Comments & REPLY BY GS, IRTSA:

I have gone through the remarks of Brother Er Bobin Mohanty at Sl. No. 79 of the Guest Book of the website http://www.irtsa.net. I appreciate that Er. Bobin has come out clearly with his views on the subject, even though I do not agree with the same.

IRTSA has always been in favour of unity of Rail Engineers & had initiated the move for unification of organisations of Engineers on the Railways. AIREF had initially responded favourably to the same and some steps were successfully taken in that direction. But later on, AIREF decided to discontinue the process further – for reasons best known to them.

The issue of probable name of the merged organisation was never formally discussed and we had always made it clear that IRTSA had an open mind on the issue of name of the merged organisation. This was made amply clear by me as well as by Er Shanmugam Central President IRTSA, during the ‘Conference for Unity’ at Kolkata last year as well as to Er Tyagi, SG, AIIRF, on several occasions, before & after it. What that name should be is a matter of discussion which we can always meet & discuss dispassionately - as agreed to at Kolkata.

There is an essential need for having an open mind by all concerned as well as respect for each others point of view and a keen desire to unite to dedicatedly serve the cause of Engineers on the Railways - forgetting all our egos, personal biases and preferences. We should be ready for all the sacrifice for the bigger cause of unity and betterment of Engineers at large.

IRTSA would welcome any move or suggestion which facilitates unity and to achieve the basic objectives of betterment of Engineers on the Railways. IRTSA stands committed to the same to its core.

I therefore, once again appeal to all Brother Engineers on the Railways, to think about it dispassionately and to unite and help in the unification and merger of all organisations of Engineers on the Railways.

With best wishes,
Yours fraternally,

Harchandan Singh,
GS, IRTSA
The following views on the subject have been posted in the Guest Book:

Dear Sri Harchandan Singhji,
G.S.,IRTSA.

I have gone through your reply on questions asked regarding the unification of IRTSA & AIREF. Both Sri Tyagiji (GS/AIREF) & You are reacting postively in this matter. But I feel some hidden agenda is coming in the way of unification that is why we are no where near the unification.

Thanks for expressing no problem to the name on AIREF as we also feel it is the appropriate name, as we are engineers.We are demanding higher status as Engineers.

Sir, Please give your proposals openly describing all features for the unification so that there will be an open debate over the matter. Until now we all feel that people at the higher position are keepin us in dark. Sir, Pl. see what our associatons have achieved in the past in spite of existance for so long. I am sure without unity we are not going to achieve anything in future also. Moreover if this continues, everyone will lose interest in the associations.

Therefore, I request you to come up with elaborate proposals and circulate it widely so that every thing will be clear. Thereafter a dicussion can be made between the leadership of the two associations for further advancement.


DIBAKAR MISHRA,
BHUBANESWAR.
E.CO.RAILWAY
The following views have been posted by Er. Ashoke Chowdhury, in the Guest Book:

I fail to understand the intention and meaning of the letter of Sri Bobin Mohanti. From his anxious thought of degradation of a Federation to an Association, it seems that he does not know the difference between the two. AIREF, as much as I know, consists of a number of individual Associations. There are only two possible ways to achieve merger. Either we would have to dissolve all the individual Associations and bring everybody under one umbrella, or all Associations, including IRTSA, would assemble under the umbrella of one Federation, whatever the name of that body be. Both are welcome. If Sri Mohanty thinks that IRTSA would be disbanded and its members would join another Association already existing as part of AIREF, then I feel sorry for him. Engineers and Nurses are two completely separately category, not to be compared. To highlight our cause, we should not demean others, specifically those serving the society. As for the name, IRTSA never had any reservation about accepting another name, so long as it favours the goal of unity. Unity is definitely required to further our cause. But recognition is a separate cup of tea altogether. And if he thinks that by simple merger of IRTSA and AIREF, we will get recognition, then he is daydreaming. He is hardly aware of the facts. I would request him to keep his eyes and ears open. Hoping again for the Unity of Engineers in Railways, I extend my hands to Sri Mohanty. Thanks.
dear engr brothers,

Only there is hitch in unification in connection with the posts -nothingelse. i know both the engineers asscns from the root.if certainly and essentially engrs want to have one umbrella , they will have to leave the posts attachment- let general engrs decide who will be our best leaders. all engrs are well educated and devoted so there should not be any problems. in airef posts for the asscn. has much more meaning so they want to stick to the chairs. god bless all of u as i m no more associated with any committee. thanks and hope u people will rise above expectations of engrs.---vksingh
The following comments have been posted this morning, by Er. Bobin Mohanty in the Guest Book:

I am afraid that Er Chowdhury has misread me or he does not feel proud himself as an Engineer. I want to clear his doubts. I have never demeaned nurses. I think not only nurses but everybody in Indian Railways serves society in various ways. Perhaps, Er. Chwdhury doesn’t have any idea about the earlier pay scales of Nurses and their positions w.r.t. our scales & positions. Is it justice that now both nurse with diploma in nursing and an engineer with degree in engineering will join Railway in same scale ? I request Er Chowdhury to go in details with nature of duties & responsibilities and pay scales in 3rd to 6th CPC of nurses and engineers. He can easily work out the engineers’ degradation. In my opinion, the nurses have been upgraded as per their duties but we have been degraded instead of upgradtion.

Then regarding Federation, I may have less knowledge, but I think he is having even lesser knowledge than me. I request him to review the structure of all Federations in Indian Railways i.e. NFIR, AIRF, Officers’ Federation, etc. No federation is having its own branch in zones instead of affiliated associations or unions. Even he can analyse the structure of Indian Railways. It is having different zones with different names under one umbrella only and not in name of Indian Railways North or South or East or West etc. he is having very good knowledge on AIREF which consists of number of individual Associations. Federation should be like that only.

I may clear it that day dream always comes more true than night dream. Without recognisation, Railways will never entertain. Moreover, I have never thought that the members of IRTSA would join another Association. This statement is totally political statement. Perhaps Er. Chowdhury is biased on recent political trend. When I work in one zone i.e. my lien is in one zone, I cannot claim the employee of another zone but at the same time I can claim as employee of Indian Railways only.

Overall we are engineers and not political leaders. We should stand on one platform only. I welcome Er. Chowdhury’s broad analysis on my letter.

INDIAN RAILWAYS TECHNICAL SUPERVISORS ASSOCIATION
(Estd. 1965, Regd. No.1329, website http://www.irtsa.net )
No. IRTSA/ Unity / 09 /1
Dated 2. 4. 2009
Dear Brother Engineers,
Subject: Another “call for Unity of Engineers on the Railways” – A Rejoinder
Ref: Remarks of Er Bobin Mohanty, in the Guest Book of irtsa.net & Comments by GS, IRTSA
I have gone through the following remarks of Brother Er Bobin Mohanty at Sl. No. 79 of the Guest Book of the website http://www.irtsa.net:

"I came to know that, IRTSA wants to maintain as Association after merger, which is injustice because Federation should not be degraded to Association. If it is so, then it is same as rail engineers are degraded at par with nurses. AIREF is the best ever name representing railway engineers. If both merge, then I hope we will be definitely recognized by Railway similar to CPWD, MES, etc. in near future." - Bobin Mohanty

I had placed my comments on Er Bobin’s above said remarks, in the “Discussion Forum” of http://www.irtsa.net along with his remarks. This had started a debate on the issue – which to some extent is good for allowing people to express their views openly and clearly. But before negative expressions are given by any of the brother Engineers I may add that ‘negativity always dispels unity’ & ‘love begets love’.
I may reiterate the following points for consideration of all Brother Engineers:

i) IRTSA has always been in favour of unity of Rail Engineers & had initiated the move for unification of organisations of Engineers on the Railways. AIREF had initially responded favourably to the same and some steps were successfully taken in that direction. But later on, AIREF decided to discontinue the process further in their AGM at Mumbai in December, 2008 – for reasons best known to them.
ii) a) The issue of the name of the merged organisation had so far never been discussed and we had always made it clear that IRTSA had an open mind on the issue of name & set-up of the merged organisation.
b) I may also mention that name & structure of the merged organisation are matters of detailed discussion - which have to be decided dispassionately - as agreed to at Kolkata.
iii) There is no issue in regard to the “leadership” or “posts” Rolleyes- as mentioned by Er V. K. Singh in the ‘Discussion Forum’.
We are ready to step down any time to make room for the younger generation as well as to make any sacrifice for the sake of unity & betterment of Engineers on the Railways.
iv) Sixth Pay Commission had already done a great injustice with the Railway Engineer by denying to them their due & by placing them in the lower Grade Pay than the Nurses, Teachers & Accounts Staff - who had all along been in lower scales than the Technical Supervisors / Engineers.
v) WE must not degrade ourselves further by blaming each other instead of fighting together against the injustice.
vi) Unity is a must for the struggle to succeed; and we all know it well. Our views may differ on some matters but our objectives are the same.
vii) There is an essential need for having an open mind by all concerned as well as a respect for each others point of view and a keen desire to unite to dedicatedly serve the cause of Engineers on the Railways - forgetting all our egos, personal biases and preferences. We should be ready for all the sacrifices for the bigger cause of unity and betterment of Engineers at large.
viii) IRTSA would welcome any move or suggestion which facilitates unity and to achieve the basic objectives of betterment of Engineers on the Railways.
ix) IRTSA stands committed to all the foregoing points.
x) I therefore, once again appeal to all Brother Engineers on the Railways, to think about all this dispassionately, to unite and help in the unification and merger of all organisations of Engineers on the Railways for the sake of betterment of present & future generations of Engineers on Railways.

With best wishes,

Yours fraternally,

Harchandan Singh,
GS, IRTSA

Copy for information & necessary action to:

1. Er A. K. Tyagi, SG, AIREF & Er. M. Shanmugam, CP, IRTSA
2. CEC Members AIRF & IRTSA by email as per mailing list available.
- With a request to give a serious thought to my views, give their comments thereon and to help whole heartedly in resuming the process of unity of Engineers & to further intensify the on going struggle for their betterment.
--- On Fri, 4/3/09, sujith kumar wrote:

From: sujith kumar
Subject: Re: Fw: Another call for “Unity of Engineers on the Railways”.
To: "HARCHANDAN SINGH"
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:15 AM
Dear Sir
I take this opporunity to express myself freely on the subject of Unity from the realm of my observation and understanding of the issue and request you to take it only as my opinion on the issue with no disregards to any body.

I have attended many of the joint meetings on the issue since the process was initiated on a serious scale a couple of years ago and I find that in the AIREF camp there is no serious concern about the benefit for the Engineers community because of the merger and rather they are only interested in sustaining their claim about the supremacy of their name, presence, reach, acheivements, etc.
The mockery really pains me when leaders like you, and our CP are at it so seriously, the people with little or no knowledge and standing from their camp uttering out silly things on equal terms.

Other than making politician like speeches whenever they got an opportunity on the stage, ( except for a few like Mr. Tyagi) I seriously doubt whether they are aware of the issues concerning Engineers and action needed to improve the career prospects.
While I have no reservation about what the name of the unified body should be, the claim that the name "Association" downgrades the organisation over "Federation " is not acceptable to me because a Federation's strength is based on the the strength of the constiuents and the name in itself doesn't lend any strength in itself.

All this apart, I am of the view that if you leaders still feel that unity will do our category any good kindly proceed further as required and we will definetly extend all our cooperation.

Regards
Sujith
On Sat, 4/4/09, nirmal chandran wrote:
From: nirmal chandran
Subject: Re: Fw: Another call for “Unity of Engineers on the Railways”.
To: "HARCHANDAN SINGH"
Date: Saturday, April 4, 2009, 11:43 AM

Dear Sir,
With due regard to Mr. Bobin Mohanty's comments posted on our guest book, I wish to put forth some of my humble views.

I have been part of some of the unification meetings including the first one held at N.Delhi where the leadership of AIREF and their past leaders - who act as their advisors - expressed their faith in your leadership and that of CP and was very open in submitting that your efforts for the Engineers have benefitted the entire community in many ourways.

I don't know the credentials of Mr. Bobin as to how many years he has served the community and in what capacity and what are his achievements. here I wish to submitt that I don't mean to disgrace him in any way, but I wish to know because i've known my leaders for the past 19 years and I have observed as a simple member and also have been part of their strugle in bringing about some dignity to this cadre. they have served this comunity for the past 43 years selflessly, sacrificing their future and are continuing even in their old age.

Here I find, his fears are unfounded and lacks sincererity and unbiased vision for the Engineer's unity and rights and can only see his staunch desire in keeping just the name of 'AIREF' supreme.

As you had always pointed out, you are open for younger leadership. but time and again IRTSA members have elected their leaders, because of their wisdom, leadership qualities and their sincerity and selflessness and their unshakeable faith that you will always take us in the right path.

Unification is neccessary to bring about all Engineers under one fold. however unification cannot be at the cost of good leadership. Even a united body with a weak and wrong leadership can be disastrous.

As you have mentioned, the question of NAME is yet to be discussed and people like Mohanty have started to find reasons to push the name AIREF as if thats the only suitable one. His argument that Federation is superior than Association is not just. Federation is an apex body of several afliated bodies which are governed by seperate laws and jurisdiction and can anytime disregard directions by the apex body or even severe their affliation and function seperately. But IRTSA is an ALL-INDIA body which has one voice with regional units.

If at all, there comes about a united Body for engineers, there shall be only one body led by the best leadership and must be accepted by all. All other denominations have to be dismantled and done with. as of now, i see no other leadership except Mr. Harchandan Singh and Mr. Shanmugam who can lead the Engineers. Their wisdom, experience and sacrifice is beyond anybody's doubt which I feel any leader cannot match - until they find a suitable succesor with their own collective choice, there is no question of change in leadership.

As far as the question of name is concerned, it is for the united body to decide collectively taking several aspects into consideration like reach, familiarity, acceptablity and relevance.

IRTSA HAS THE STRENGTH, LEADERSHIP AND EXPERIENCE TO LEAD THE ENGINEERS TOWARDS A SUCCESFUL CAREER AND GROWTH AND THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH IN IT CAN JUMP INTO THE BAND WAGON.

With regards and respects,

NIRMAL
bade bhai harchandan ji,
if there is no hitch in leadership/posts, then why so much thinking. what is the hurdle . i want that before my retirement all engrs bros. must come under one umbrella, otherwise i won't have peace of mind even after my retirement. the day & night i dream to see all together to project the genuine grievances of our engr brotheren. if it happens, it will be more than recognition by rly admn. the i joined indian rlys after indian air force , i dreaming to see all the engrs to be on one platform. thanks---vksingh

Reply by GS IRTSA
Dear Brother Er V.K. Singh,
Thanks for your sentiments.
I have sent copy of my letter to all brother Engineers as per addresses of CEC of AIREF & IRTSA (available with me) by email as well as placed it on the website of IRTSA - along wih the views of all concerned - for an open discussion on the issue in the most democratic manner.
It is now for the CEC of AIREF to respond & resume the discussions on the subject.
With best wishes & regards to all brother Engineers.
Harchandan Singh.
GS, IRTSA
On Sun, 4/5/09, dinesh das wrote:
From: dinesh das
Subject: Re: “Unity of Engineers on the Railways”.
To: "HARCHANDAN SINGH"
Cc: dineshmet@yahoo.co.in
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 6:40 PM

Dear Sir,

Your call for unity of engineers is a very good step in strengthening the voice of engineers in Indian Railways. I think all Railway Engineers should get united and come to a single platform to fight the battle of injustice with Railway administration. Railway Engineers are deprived of their basic privilege because there are several Railway Engineers association / organisation running in Indian Railways. Their principle, policy, thinking and demand differ with one another .That is why their voice is shattered. As these associations too have some big impact in different categories of Rail Engineers, it would not be possible to bring them to the same platform easily. IRTSA should come forward to unite all these different big or small association by giving them representation in IRTSA. It should provide responsible portfolio to the leaders of these association.

It is worth mentioning that the Engineers in the CMT department are the worst sufferer of injustice in the history of Indian Railways due to lack of support from union and different Engineers association in the past. Therefore, I would request our C&M organisation head Mr. R. Vijay Kumar to merge IRCMSA with IRTSA to make the voice of Engineers in C&M department sound more louder to the Railway Board. I would also request you to consult Mr. R. Vijay Kumar to organise a seminar for CMT organisation to discuss and make a draft of the several issues related with the CMT department as early as possible, as Railway Board has formed a departmental anomaly committee (only for Indian Railways)recently to solve departmental anomalies.

Yours Sincerely
Dinesh Kr. Das,
CMA-I/DLS/RAIPUR/SECR.
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