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Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors.
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Post: #1
Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors.
Dear Brother Engineers,

Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' (Gazetted) status to Technical Supervisors on Railways.

IRTSA has fought so hard over the years for getting Group B for the Technical Supervisors - and the struggle still goes on. In the light of the developments after Sixth Pay Commission and issue of the orders dated 9.4.2009 by DOP, on classification of posts under the Union of India, the entire issue is again under reconsideration by the Railways. IRTSA is seeking implementaion of the orders of DOP.

Meanwhile, some brother Engineers have started a debate on the issue. Copy of a letter from Er D.K. Das. (CMA-I/DLS/R/SECR), is sent herewith for your comments & opinion on the points raised by him as well as any other point which you may like to add regarding Classification of posts in Group B., as in the light of the issues raised by ER Dinesh & others, it is high time we have an open debate on the issue.
This copy of this letter is being placed on the IRTSA website "irtsa.net" for starting a debate on the issue and gathering comments of Engineers at large, on the same. I shall reserve my comments for the end to facilitate an open debate on the subject results of which will be reviewed by the CEC IRTSA in its next meeting.

So please post your comments here or send them to me early by email at my ID: gsirtsa@yahoo.com.

Yours fraternally,
Harchandan Singh,
GS, IRTSA
05-04-2009 08:30 PM
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Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors
Dear Sir,

We are pleased to hear that Ministry of Personnel, Public Grievances and Pensions (Department of personnel and Training) has classified the persons serving in Indian Audit and Accounts Department in the grade pay of 4200, 4600, 4800 & 5400 as Group ‘B’ which is effective  from the  date of issue of notification.  Now it’s to be implemented in Indian Railways also and both federations and IRTSA have tightened their waist to implement it as early as possible. The role of IRTSA is very important in this issue as maximum no. of the work force in Indian Railways working in grade pay of 4200, 4600, 4800 & 5400 are technical people. But there would be several demerits with the implementation of this posts classification in Indian Railways. Some of the queries are pointed out below.

1)      What would be status of Group ‘B’? Gazetted or non-gazetted?

2)      Whether employees with G.P. 4200 & 4600 will continue to get yearly bonus or not?
 
The Railway Board will try to implement Group ‘B’ status starting from GP 4200 as most of the technical people come under this GP. By doing so, Railway Board will save crores of rupees, which is to be given as yearly bonus.

3)      Whether Master crafts man (MCM) or Sr. Technicians would also be given Group ‘B’ classification as they also have GP of 4200?

4)      Whether employees with G.P. 4200 & 4600 will continue to get incentives given in production, manufacturing units, workshop etc. or not?

Railway Board will again save crores of rupees. In both the cases the technical supervisors will be deprived of the monetary benefits with the inclusion in Group ‘B’. From the above queries it is clear that the worst sufferer of the gazette B implementation would be technical supervisors particularly JEs. If no monetary loss occurs to technical supervisors then its implementation starting from GP 4200 is ok, otherwise it should be implemented from GP 4600 onwards.

With best regards

D.K. Das. (CMA-I/DLS/R/SECR)
05-04-2009 08:41 PM
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Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors
The following comments have been posted by Er. Dipankar Paul in the IRTSA Guest Book. These are being reproduced in the IRTSA Forums as a part of the Open Discussion on this vital subject:

I'm astonished at the hue and cry about Gr. B status or gazetted/non-gazetted; what we're going to have if we have given with the SEAL unless (i) it translates into money

(ii) it confers dignity to the persons craving for the gr.B/or associated benefits that are accruable to the seekers,if there is any.

(iii) if Gr. B converts us into puppets of Administrations (which in all probability is a certainty, given the basic working fabric of the rly. where chair sans techincal acumen rules over the Lower Stratum who actually slog to bend their brains to come out of the daily problems, technical/administrative & even to some extent policy matters fabrication), Gr.B/Gr.A/Gr.A+/whatever doesn't or shouldn't matter much.

An ambience where promotees are looked down upon & converted into "YES MAN" in spite of having better knowledge-band & wide-angled views of the working in measures of technical inputs, the basic purpose of any elevation is defeated in a sense that we may brag off positions to the outsiders (who do not know the system) but our conscience will carry always a low self-esteem and it is the Sublime Mind that would one day or other start questioning ourselves whether the job, we are sticking to is worthwhile. Dissatisfacton will brim over and ultimately lead to VRS. In the mundane world position at your job matters but not beaten self-esteem as that tends to create a hollowness that stands in the way when mixing with the strata (esp. Executives of Corporate world) which is bloated with well-fed ego generated out of freedom of work, freedom of thought, freedom of speech & exposure to contemporary knowledge and ultimately good perks of life. It may be the reason why we, after our life in this peculiar Organization never stand a chance to pick up another job or get recognition from the professionals that we boast of (without being given the chances of imbibing the technology that we live & breathe), of course exceptions are there, but, even then, I personally know ex-railwaymen leaving the job because of their lacunae of knowledge of the tenets of the technical things that they lived with during their tenure of service or the daily browbeating by the Superiors (Gr.A) into accepting concepts & ideas eroding their confidence to come out of their own in tackling Pressure-Situation & finally the power of decision making, that which matters in Out Side Railway Working Situation.

So Gr.B may be our craze for the moment, we would soon realize that Post/Seal without POWER converts us into puppets, puffed up ego notwithstanding.

With Respect to All Brother Engineers & begging of excuse if these unadulterated feelings of this soul, fulled by his experience in this Or ganization since 1989 (As Direct Dy.SS) go on to hurting somebody's sentiment Higher or Lower in Positions."

05-05-2009 12:02 PM
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roy_subir Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors.
Dear Sir,

Re: Open Discussion

Since long time the staff of Audit & Accounts Deptt was continuously getting status of Group-B in the lower scale in comparison to technical staff of Railways even prior to 6th CPC.
IRTSA has already taken initiative due to anomolies in GP of technical supervisors. So I feel, if the GP is revised from Rs.4200 to Rs.4800 or even Rs.4600/- for the JEs, then autometically all the four questions/queries raised by Er. Dinesh Das (CMA-I) will be answered. I think Er. Dinesh Das has not seen the Memorandum issued by IRTSA to the Rly. Board about classification of Rly. Supervisors in Group-B, wherein it is clearly mentioned /demanded for the status of Gazetted only.

With regards,

Subir Ray
SSE/W.Rly.
05-05-2009 08:01 PM
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nirmalchandran
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Post: #5
RE: Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors.
Correct me if i am wrong - Even after the Vth CPC, DOP&T issued an order classifying all posts for which the Max. of scale is not less than 9000 as Group 'B' i.e., all posts in the scale of 5500 - 9000 as Group 'B'. But each ministry implimented to their convenience. some classified all posts above 5500 - 9000 as gruop'B" (Non-Gazetted), some classified all posts above 6500 - 10500 as group 'B'(gazetted) and some Ministries like Rlys totally ingnored it. So this order is neither new nor a suprise.

In my humble opinion, since VIth CPC wants to do away with Group 'D', PB-1 have been classified as Group'C' and PB-2 have been classified as Group'B'. In this context and taking into account the approach of Railways in this regard in the past it is all likely that Rlys. may not impliment in toto. Even if it does it will always use the tool "Non-Gazetted" for all posts below the rank of Asst. Officers. So that brings us to square one again and we should keep fighting for higher grade pay and Gazetted status for SEs and SSEs.

However, unless Rly. Board orders are released all that we assume is only diabolic and there is no necesity to get frenzy and illucinate that they will make us Puppets, slaves,'YES MAN' etc., Nobody can make one a puppet unless he gives in. So let us wait for the Rly board orders and then shape our struggle accordingly. Having said that, it is always good to keep this debate alive so that we prepare ourselves the pros and cons and be clear about our demands.

Finally, if there is one thing that is for sure, it is that nothing comes easy ; nothing will be served on a platter. Unless we struggle, unless we come out of our comfort zone and fight from our heart, unless we translate words into action and be ready to make small sacrifices - monetarily and physically all our rightful demands will remain a distant dream.
05-08-2009 12:54 PM
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asmath55
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Post: #6
RE: Re-Classification of Posts in Central Civil Services
I think Mr.Nirmal has dealt the matter(Re-Classification of posts) in correct perspective with regard to Railways. Whether the privileges of pre-SCPC Group B will be bestowed on post-SCPC Group B is to be waited and watched. May be we are forced to change our demand from Group B status to Group A status to SSE, CMS & CDMS.
05-08-2009 09:42 PM
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Hira Singh
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Post: #7
RE: Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors.
(05-04-2009 08:30 PM)Administrator Wrote:  Dear Brother Engineers,

Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' (Gazetted) status to Technical Supervisors on Railways.

IRTSA has fought so hard over the years for getting Group B for the Technical Supervisors - and the struggle still goes on. In the light of the developments after Sixth Pay Commission and issue of the orders dated 9.4.2009 by DOP, on classification of posts under the Union of India, the entire issue is again under reconsideration by the Railways. IRTSA is seeking implementaion of the orders of DOP.

Meanwhile, some brother Engineers have started a debate on the issue. Copy of a letter from Er D.K. Das. (CMA-I/DLS/R/SECR), is sent herewith for your comments & opinion on the points raised by him as well as any other point which you may like to add regarding Classification of posts in Group B., as in the light of the issues raised by ER Dinesh & others, it is high time we have an open debate on the issue.
This copy of this letter is being placed on the IRTSA website "irtsa.net" for starting a debate on the issue and gathering comments of Engineers at large, on the same. I shall reserve my comments for the end to facilitate an open debate on the subject results of which will be reviewed by the CEC IRTSA in its next meeting.

So please post your comments here or send them to me early by email at my ID: gsirtsa@yahoo.com.

Yours fraternally,
Harchandan Singh,
GS, IRTSA

Dear Sir,
Gruop 'B' status must be get to all tecnical supervisors i.e JE,SE &SSE. It is our demad which is pending from long time.For getting this we should unite at one platform forgetting all .Without one strong organisation we can not get nothing.

Hira Singh/Divl.Secy/ECREA/MGS
05-09-2009 10:23 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors.
Er. Shaikh has emailed the following comments to GS, IRTSA:


In my opinion all SSEs should only be given Group "B" Status with Rs.5400 /- Grade Pay.

M.M. Shaikh
SSE S & T W/S Byculla, Mumbai-400027
05-09-2009 11:20 AM
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Post: #9
RE: Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors.
Dear Brother Er Masood Shaikh,

We have since posted your views on the website at the following Link:

http://www.irtsa.net/forums/thread-511-p...tml#pid751

However, may I ask you the following questions to enliven the debate & to seek the opinion of others on the subject:

i) What are the reasons for holding your opinion that

"ALL SSEs SHOULD ONLY BE GIVE GROUP "B" SATUS WITH 5400 /- GRADE PAY".

ii) If as per DOPs orders JEs in CPWD / MES etc are given Group B -
then why those on the Railways be deprived of the same?

HS, GS, IRTSA
05-09-2009 12:43 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Open Debate on the demand for Group 'B' to Technical Supervisors.
From: raj kumar
Subject: Group B
To: "gsirtsa"
Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:12 PM


All SSEs should get Gazetted status of Group 'B'. Non Gazetted Group B not acceptable with minimum Rs. 5400 Grade Pay. If working conditions are same, also should get all allowances as it is. No cut in 15 % incentive and 7.5 % PCO allowance.
05-18-2009 06:02 PM
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